Wednesday, June 08, 2011

Discours perspicace

Discourse involving the conceptional-ization, the portrayal of the actual action and the socio-history aspect of Romance. How it has been moulded and shaped from age ole' till the modern day, with certain aspects of it still being embraced tightly by our society. A discussion with a like-minded soul. Truly insightful and worthwhile.

  • Levan Wee
    has finally decided for sure -- his Honors and his Ph.D will be about ROMANTIC LOVE. The cultural contexts, the historicity, the rationalization, the emotionalism, the why's, the how's, the when's, the where's, the what's! The empirical, the theoretical! I will not rest until the Sociology of it is revealed!
    3 hours ago · ·
    • You and 4 others like this.
      • Eizan Eng Seriously?
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng Are you gonna end up drawing into romanticism and the notion of the 'author'?
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng might actually be interesting, applying socio onto the study of the author and its implied text.
        3 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee
        Yup! There's a lot of Sociology on work, on medicalisation, on inequalities, on class, on education, etc. But strangely, very little on the Sociology of Love. Perhaps because it is such a metaphysical thing. Yet, it is indisputable, whichever way you cut it, that love -- or the idealised version of love -- is an impetus in a lot of our lives.

        I'm thinking of taking first a post-structuralist concept of Love, to develop a better understanding of how our concepts of romantic love today is historically and culturally situated. This has been done before, of course. What hasn't really been extensively elaborated on, however, is a theoretical framework (that is properly grounded in empirical research) on how love has been construed into the meaningfulness of our lives, in what ways, to what extent, and to what effect.
        3 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee
        In the postmodernist impulses of today, which emphasizes individualism over collectivity, independence over reliance on others, where self-sustainability constitutes to the moral fiber of a person, the doctrines of Love -- in its idealized form --would seem to conflict somewhat with this postmodernist condition. Maybe that's why divorce rates are skyrocketing through the roof these days (about 49% in Australia, and a quarter in Singapore). Can't say conclusively yet, but it's a hunch.
        3 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee Are you thinking of continuing your studies after this btw? Or going into the working world?
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng the idealised version of love can also be deemed as a sociological concept that arises from the public's perception and preference - which is related to the media text they consume. Think korean soap and to lit romance. An interesting outlook would be to see the relation between the two different text as mentioned and thereafter to examine how it has shifted since the era of romanticism.
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng
        the emphasis of individualism is reflective of capitalism - fashion trends, ideas of love and what people in love generally do, to spend lavishly on a person means you love that person etc. While the issue of reliance would still be hyped up in asian soap, and to an extend even modern day movies - Twilight for example, where the female lead was portrayed as being overly reliant on her male counterpart and even the desperate attempts she goes to in order to get him back to her side. Its a stupid movie but with the amount of fans it has garnered, its an important media text that affects people's lives.
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng
        While I think you might be on a good hunch that it is related to divorce rates - based on a feminist view, women being able to stand on their own, and even recent researches that actually show that women are outweighing men in the professional and educational sphere, with men lagging behind partially due to male identity problems and how media portrays men. Similarly, there are still advocators of the idea that women should rely on their spouse and just stick to doing the domestic work thats required of them.
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng I'm thinking of continuing my studies haha. Looking at either Sociology or Psychology. Undecided for now. Both of which has triggered my interest.
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng ‎*bearing in mind that romanticism to start with wasn't the general idea of romance as perceived now. Rather it was of tales of conquest, bravery, proving self worth etc and not just the general idea of romance and erotica.
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng If you're going ahead to do this topic, I'm really interested in your findings as well as your process ^^
        3 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng But I think there are also concepts of love in which the concerned parties aren't portrayed as being reliant on each other. But rather they seek to compete with each other, besting one another at everything and anything they do - check out the film 'Love Me if You Dare'.
        2 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee
        Those are good points of interest you mentioned! Also, I'm thinking of taking into account a Foucauldian perspective on how normalizing judgments and panopticism has conditioned individuals into their ideals of Love. This will include, like you said, an exposure to mediated texts and such which reinforces these concepts of normality. I'm also interested in developing an idea of Symbiotic Individualism whereby individuals are concomitantly engaged in the pursuits of Individualism whilst adhering to the values of coexistence and mutual dependency that is inherent in the ideologies of Love, Romance, and perhaps exclusivity. I think the historical contexts are really interesting though. but am more interested in developing a theoretical framework (something like Bourdieu's concept of habitus, fields, and cultural capital) of modern romantic Love.

        But it will be difficult to do so until I can ground it with empirical studies with interviewees and such. Don't want to be like Giddens, who sits and theorizes his stuff without actually conducting fieldwork! :D
        2 hours ago · · 1 person
      • Levan Wee You should continue your studies! Go all the way with it! You obviously seem to love it as much as I do. The pursuit of knowledge is only one step below the sharing of it with others! ;)
        2 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee
        ‎"While I think you might be on a good hunch that it is related to divorce rates - based on a feminist view, women being able to stand on their own".

        I think that the pursuit of being able to 'stand on one's own feet' IS part of the postmodernist condition. I'm not sure about the reason for increasing divorce rates though, but it is almost definitely underpinned by individualism. However, I'm sure that there is a huge diversity of reasons which are also framed within this. Will need to do an ethnographic study of divorcees in order to grasp a less presumptuous understanding on my part though. That will be a thrill. Talking to divorcees about how their marriage crumbled and why. Your regular Friday get-together of happy discussions :P
        2 hours ago · · 1 person
      • Eizan Eng Haha well its gonna be hard to provide an empirical study to back something which is actually metaphysical but I guess it would be interesting to examine the perceived notion of love of the individual as opposed to the media text, cultural inheritance and peer influence. Well Gidden's theories did provide some headway and just too bad i guess haha.
        2 hours ago · · 1 person
      • Eizan Eng I hope so lol. I'll definitely heed your advice on that but gonna have to take it a step at a time.
        2 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee Yeah, I totally agree on that. Empirical evidence of a metaphysical notion is extremely tricky. Must somehow find a way to equate it with social actions, and tangible methods of measurement. Will definitely have to ponder over it during the holidays, whilst, of course, catching up with the lagging of Playstation 3 games I am missing out on this year (until I get to my PS3 again in Singapore :P)
        2 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng ‎'Talking to divorcees about how their marriage crumbled and why. Your regular Friday get-together of happy discussions :P'

        I think you should also include their perception of love before and after the failed marriage, similarly to examine if the reasons backing their action was actually justifiably - as in there was no other options, or did they even seek other options (reconcile, marriage councillor etc)
        2 hours ago · · 1 person
      • Eizan Eng Or even examine how the failed marriage has affected their child's (if they have any) notion of love. (there has been 'findings' that children from single family are prone to extremities and how this affects their relationships) - loving a person devotedly as compared to swingers.
        2 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng Haha! its gonna be hard to conceive some concepts in your head while playing halo, gow etc. But hell, its definitely worth a try lol. Well keep a pen and paper by your side, you never know when the ole' noggin's gonna give you a surprise once in a while lol.
        2 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee We should talk about this more soon during the holidays! It is nice to speak to someone and bounce ideas off each other, without them 1) simply nodding 2) asking me to STFU and get wasted (Which can sometimes be a good idea in the right contexts!) 3) is able to dialectically expand on a given idea with more insights! Awesome.
        2 hours ago · · 1 person
      • Levan Wee Agreed with the comment above. One of the reasons for a failure is probably because the relationship failed to live up to an expectation. WHAT those expectations were is a great way to get a better inside understanding of the phenomena!
        2 hours ago · · 1 person
      • Eizan Eng anytime dude, this just got me hyped up lol. Sadly socio is over so... bummer! Next sem it is then lol
        2 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng Or the fact that it did live up to the expectation but then the 'perceived emotion' wasn't compared to what it was hyped up to be. This is of cos in contrast or even link to people who search for their soul mates and in that journey give everything they have, just for a brief moment of the feeling (ons for example)
        2 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee
        Yup. Research has shown that children tend to actively adopt / repel the structures of their parents' relationship, almost in a dichotomized way. Very interesting.

        In the end though, the reason why I want to do a research on Love because it is quite simply a feeling that is inherent in all of us. Forms of Love have consistently shown itself across the epochs of history, albeit through different and varied expressions of it. But that human need and want for an emotional connection to others has been strong (although there was a point in time where it was OKAY to touch little boys because it was 'normal' :P) I'm interested n unraveling the processes of negotiation between individuals as they pursue those types of emotional connection.

        I think you should continue on into your Honors in Sociology. :P The mother of Media Studies! And all the social sciences, booyah!
        2 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng Haha as they say, in a way we all want to feel a part of something, something we belong to and that we can fall back on. Emotional creatures that we are despite the tedious trials we put ourselves through and proving that we are superior to others and that we're able to stand on our own. End of the day, even lone wolves need a pack.
        2 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng ‎*Good point, should include on the emotional factors (if provable) on individuality and the fear of loneliness perhaps?
        2 hours ago ·
      • Levan Wee
        I did a small focus group study last year for Qualitative Research (BTW, you MUST take the module if you are into Sociology, cause that was the best module I've taken so far!)

        What I found was that, given the enormous Australian emphasis on independence, autonomy and self-reliance, the pursuits of romantic relationships, with its strong accentuation on interdependence and mutual acceptance, is striking. Interestingly, I found that as the focus group interview progressed, participants began placing an increasingly unconscious impetus on ideals of individualism as a means for explaining their pursuits of romantic relationships. The entailing irony and self-contradictive nature of Australian individualism arises from the realisation that whilst a high degree of personal initiative, competence and rationality are still the prerequisite necessities expected of individuals, the autonomy of the successful individual and even the symbolic meaning of ‘success’ in itself have become progressively ambiguous. Moreover, if romantic relationships are regarded by young Australians adults to be an integral emblematic ingredient for ‘success’, then the tension involved in having to balance the freedom of individual choice with an abidance to the social norms and expectations of the field of romantic love is a great cause of personal uncertainty, discontent and insecurity.

        The difficulties seemed to stem from this point. It soon became apparent to me from interviews that the concomitant need for independence and companionship is a large cause of internal conflict and insecurities amongst many young Australian adults. Research has shown that the less certain of ourselves we are, the more we need love, appreciation and respect and the more inclined we are to be attracted to people who offer us those rewards. Romantic relationships in particular are widely considered by young adults to be a great provider of such rewards. And yet, the accomplishment of this reward, if achieved to its idealized form, is quite antithetical to the unbridled pursuit of individualism!

        Thus, if we are to believe that the practices of individualism are rampant amongst young Australian adults, it would be logical to assume that the selfishness of this kind of romantic attraction – in which romantic relationships are utilised as a means of attaining self-affirmation and the fulfilment of one’s own happiness – serves as one possible explanation for their pursuits of romantic relationships. Put concisely, these types of pursuits are intrinsically driven by the highly-individualistic ethos of “We love those who will love us” -- a very strong indicator of a postmodernist condition.
        2 hours ago ·
      • Eizan Eng
        Haha I will take note of that, would happen next year I guess.

        The result concluded is indeed interesting, I would have assumed on my part that firstly the emblematic ingredient for 'success' would be materialistic possessions. Well I guess it would be linked to the mental state of 'trophy wives' in showing that the individual was able to land himself with a girl and in all matters - to be able to provide for her and the extended family. Likewise I think skepticism itself is an ingredient of romance - brewed from tales of ye' ole' with jealousy and a jittered lover. perhaps these notions were never entirely dismiss and have seeped into your mental cognition.
        about an hour ago ·
      • Eizan Eng The ethos of "we love those we love us" might even be linked in a particular way to religion - practicing what you preach, to love thy neighbour and to do unto others what you want others to do to thee. Such phrases might have become how individuals formulate their life's motto on.
        about an hour ago ·
      • Levan Wee
        I think it's more like, symbolic success. You know, the usual narratives of life is get married, or at least, be with someone etc. If you're not for too long a period of time, people will usually measure you up against the normalizing judgment and naturally assume there must be 'something wrong' with you. And nobody wants to be the jilted one from the pack, especially for unfounded reasons! It's a social pressure for all of us really; even when we tell ourselves "I'm glad being single!" it often comes with a very intentional, or defensive purpose with the undertone of "SO WHAT if I'm single? I am my own individual!".
        about an hour ago ·
      • Levan Wee It's inescapable really. Normalizing judgments are around us, always. I suspect that it's not just a social necessity but a biological reality too. We need order, categories, structure, etc, in order to make sense of the 'chaos' of life, to structure our cognitive learning experience.
        about an hour ago · · 1 person
      • Eizan Eng
        While eating my noodles earlier, I was reminded (I'm not sure, but I'm assuming you must have been exposed to it as well coming from Sillypore) how the government through education systems tried to formulate notions of love and its characteristics. There were signs, posters, mouse pads, magnets showcasing slogans "If he loves you, he won't force you", "Love does not = sex" etc. And when you take such actions and compare them to the western culture, you start seeing a whole different cultural difference. Especially in the latter years where supposedly asian cultures (Singapore) starting adopting the lights of strip clubs etc; and the shift of the paradigm from advocating "No Sex" to "Safe Sex" which has no doubt affected the perception of Love among teens. That as long as they are in love, psychical romance is deemed as the 'norm'.
        about an hour ago · · 1 person
      • Eizan Eng ‎"It's inescapable really. Normalizing judgments are around us, always. I suspect that it's not just a social necessity but a biological reality too. We need order, categories, structure, etc, in order to make sense of the 'chaos' of life, to structure our cognitive learning experience."

        Spoken like a true sociologist.
        about an hour ago ·
      • Eizan Eng its more of labelling and stereotyping at the end of the day. Do this and this = "success", don't and you're a "failure"
        about an hour ago ·
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